my phd advisor fired me

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My Ph.D. adviser fired me. Here’s how I moved on

By Anurag Srivastava

My Ph.D. adviser called me into his office, saying I needn’t bring my notebook. Puzzled, I followed him and sat down. We’d met for 2 hours the day before to finalize our project plan for the coming months, and it wasn’t clear what more we had to discuss. He started by saying, “Anurag, this conversation isn’t going to be easy,” instantly sending my mind into a flurry of thoughts about what was to follow. After 15 minutes of listing positive things about my academic capabilities, he looked me in the eye and said, “You are fired from the lab.” I stared back, blinking in disbelief. “Is he joking?” I wondered. “How is this possible?”

I had moved to Israel from my native India the year before, excited to experience a new culture and pursue a Ph.D. I’d already completed a master’s degree in the Netherlands, and at first things went well in my new lab: I got along with my Ph.D. adviser, and my experiments progressed as planned. Then, 3 months before I was fired, I ran into some problems. I made a few mistakes in the lab that slowed my research, but I wasn’t aware that my adviser noticed them, and he never spoke to me about any concerns.

That’s why I was caught off guard in his office that day. I’m still not sure why he fired me, but I suspect it was because of those mistakes. He wasn’t confident that I could complete my research in the time frame we’d planned.

The first few days after my dismissal were especially difficult. I spent hours staring at my computer screen, unable to get anything done. One day all I could do was sit on a beach, crying as I looked out across the Mediterranean Sea and wondered what I should do.

My adviser gave me 2 months to wrap up my work. I tried to change his mind with promising results, but he remained resolute. I could not break the news to my family in India, as the fear of disappointing them overwhelmed me. I soon spiraled into a state of depression and anxiety. Meanwhile, the date for me to leave the country was drawing near, as my visa required me to be enrolled as a student. I was lonely and without hope.

I started to wonder whether my experience was unique. Poking around on the internet, I was relieved to discover that many Ph.D. students never finish their studies for various reasons, one of which is a broken relationship with their adviser. At least I wasn’t alone.

When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

Around that time, I watched Dasvidaniya , a Bollywood movie that’s about a man who is told that he has 3 months to live. He responds by reframing his perspective on life and setting out to make the most of his remaining months. Even though it is a common saying, one line from the movie stuck out to me: “When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.” What kind of “lemonade” could I make out of my current situation?

My desire to complete a Ph.D. was never in doubt; it was my confidence that had taken a hit after my dismissal. After much reflection, I told myself that one failed attempt was not the end of the world, and that I needed to give it another try. I reminded myself that even if I am not the most skilled researcher in the lab, I am a good teacher and I care passionately about mentoring students. My goal is to go back to India to work as a professor, a job I think I would excel at.

With renewed confidence, I emailed prospective advisers and applied to other programs. My previous adviser had not yet secured tenure; this time, I sent my applications to more senior, tenured professors. I thought they would have more experience working with international students and would be more patient as I developed my research abilities. Within 2 months of that fateful conversation in my adviser’s office, I landed an offer from a Ph.D. program in Italy. I accepted it and relocated to Europe, happy that my goal of completing a Ph.D. was alive once again.

I’ve faced other challenges during my current Ph.D. program, but my adviser has been supportive, and I’ve felt comfortable going to him for help and guidance. I’m thankful that I didn’t give up on my dream and that I found another professor willing to take me on. So, if you find yourself in a similar situation and life gives you lemons, ask yourself: “How can I make lemonade?”

About the author

I am a third year PhD student at the University of Turin, Italy. My research focuses on understanding the mechanism of the obesity paradox using bioinformatics. In my free time, I enjoy reading and coaching students in higher education. I am passionate about cooking, science communication and encouraging more empathy and compassion in science/academia/ the field of science.

Contact: Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook

This article was originally published in Science Magazine in January 2020 and has been republished with permission

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Officially Grads

Do PhD students get fired?

By previousstudent March 18, 2015 in Officially Grads

previousstudent

If your adviser decides to terminate you, is this the same as being fired? On a job application, when asked if you were ever fired, do you have to write yes?

My feeling is that the answer is no - lots of PhD students fall out, and to have to state you were fired... that just seems like schools would be putting many very smart individuals into an undesirable classification.

What is the right thing to write for reason for leaving the job?

I had the worst kind of adviser - the kind who simply would not put an approval through even if you got a publication if he did not like you (this is just one of the awful things he did). In other words, he decided early on that he would never grant a student the PhD but kept them around just to have more students (I was funded by another organization). It was a terrible time of my life and I held on hoping something would change. He was nice to my face but made sure I could not succeed. I could have reported him to the school with proof of unethical behavior but felt I might win a battle but certainly would lose the war.

Any advice/input would be greatly appreciated.

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Yes. If the university regaurds TA/RA/GA as employees, and you were in fact, terminated because of your performance in these tasks, that is fired.

If you say were just a PhD student, and your advisor decides to drop you because of performance, that is getting kicked out of a program, not a job.

This is terrible. I had no idea that was the case. I would have quit instead of holding out then. I was already looking for jobs.

But your second statement does not really apply correctly to my situation - all PhD students were graduate assistants. So there is no such thing as just being a PhD student.

Hopefully I receive more responses. Thank you for your input.

St Andrews Lynx

It sounds more like "getting asked to leave the program", which isn't the same as formally firing you. I think that firing involves specific paperwork and admin/HR.

You can always check with your university ombudspeople for advice about your specific situation.

juilletmercredi

You might have been informally considered a graduate research assistant in your program. But were you formally hired by the university as a GRA and your position terminated because of performance issues? All PhDs do research during their programs but not all PhDs are actually hired as formal employees of the university on GRAs.

Even then, I still think it's a grey area. Your employment as a GRA is contingent upon your student status. You could be performing fine at your job and still be terminated simply because you left the program; that's not really the same as getting fired from a formal job because of your performance. The important question is - if you list your PI as your supervisor, what would he say?

AndrewBworth

I have a very similar issue. My old advisor won't help me at all.

Also to note, you can be "fired" from a lab/by a PI, but not kicked out of the program. The two are not synonymous.

I think the important thing is what the HR/hiring individuals would consider your dismissal, not the technical term. If your advisor will say he fired you and you don't list it, they will likely consider it unethical to not have put that you were fired.

The technicalities of whether you were "fired" or not won't really matter in that case.

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How to deal with an advisor that offers you nearly no advising at all?

I am a young PhD student (24) at a Germany university and I am not sure whether this is the right place to ask this kind of question. If not feel free to move it elsewhere or delete it completely.

Currently, I a have a half time position in Analysis and my doctoral advisor more and more turns out to be not very involved in my PhD. I started 1 1/2 years ago at the age of 22 and my PhD advisor was at least somehow involved as I wrote my Master thesis but gave me much freedom. He gave this thesis the best grade possible and I felt I also deserved it to an extent. The topic was one that I had chosen myself and I learned much new things writing it; combining different areas that I did not know before. This time was quite stressful for me personally as I tend to pressure myself too hard if I have to perform like this. After that I was quite exhausted but wanted to pursue a PhD at my university in the field I wrote my Master thesis in because I felt like the right thing to do; I really like the people and also the topic I wrote my thesis on.

However, things changed rapidly as I became officially a PhD student. First thing my advisor told me was that he had no time to spend on me as his oldest PhD student had to finish after over four years. I did not wonder and at that time I had the luck to write a paper with a guy, which still is like some mathematical godfather to me (and much more capable than me), who I met on a conference. The paper that we wrote had quite nice new ideas in it, however I felt my part in creating it was minor. But I also did some good work I think.

At the start of the year I investigated some other question on my own and managed to produce a positive result with the tools I learned from writing the first paper. I also extended the question quite a bit to write a paper on my own about the topic; without any advising at all. The only thing I currently do, is to speak with some colleagues of mine over very specific questions. I sent this "paper" to my advisor and the only thing he told me is that he would be too busy to read it in near future.

Currently, I have another collaboration going with the guy I mentioned beforehand and several others who advise me more than my own advisor, although they work on completely different universities. So currently I am quite lucky to have some advision and a perspective in research.

Finally, my PhD advisor didn't give me a question to work one. He just mentioned very vaguely that one maybe could extend some of the concepts used in my Master thesis but he couldn't tell me any possible applications for these abstractions. So I did not feel like this would be promising to work on. He also does not meet up with me on a weakly basis to discuss. Furthermore, my advisor also holds a record on suggesting topics to this PhD students that are completely inept to work on at this stage of their mathematical career. My older "PhD brothers", for example, spend to years working on a big conjecture in one specific field without making any progress, whatsoever. My PhD advisor had also no new idea how to approach that problem; he basically just told them to try it without giving much help.

So I frequently ask myself the following question: "Do I feel it is worth to pursue a PhD under this circumstances?"

I saw how other advisors work with their PhD students and I feel their advisors have a clear initial idea on the "what" and on the "how". Moreover, they meet up and discuss the current problems that arise while pursuing the question. All this I do not have at the moment. I really enjoy teaching courses but I do not have the impression that I move forward in research to much and that really pulls me down. And I also feel that this whole situation damages me mentally to a point where I frequently get anxiety attacks. On the other hand, I know that I could earn good money in the economy with my qualities and my intellectual capacity.

So my question is: Would you advise me to quit my PhD and to try it at another university in my field? Or should I stay and fight? Or should I just skip the PhD and do something that earns my money and gives me more structure?

I know that the "right" answer to this question is not determined in any way and that it might fit in the category "vague question" that we usually try to avoid on this platform. But I do not know where to ask it elsewhere and I would like to get answers from people with more academic experience than I have. I really cannot really pigeonhole my whole situation and do not know what to do at the moment.

soft-question
gm.general-mathematics
27 $\begingroup$ You might check out academia.stackexchange.com which has a lot of questions similar to yours. $\endgroup$ – Nate Eldredge Commented Sep 28, 2020 at 21:59
16 $\begingroup$ I'm sorry that you find yourself in this position. Others will say more but I'd advise u first to attempt to decouple the questions "should I do a phd and pursue math as a profession?" and "should I do a PhD with this particular advisor?". It is by no means unheard of for ppl to switch advisors (formally), or to informally do so, to save time with admin and so on. Luckily for u, u seem to have done a good job forging connections with ppl who are in a position to help u out mathematically, so perhaps this would be something to consider. My best wishes as u deal with this. $\endgroup$ – user108998 Commented Sep 28, 2020 at 22:44
10 $\begingroup$ Some departments/universities will accept a bunch of published papers in lieu of a dissertation as meeting their requirements for a PhD. As you have some publications, maybe you should look into whether your institutions would find this acceptable. $\endgroup$ – Gerry Myerson Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 2:56
3 $\begingroup$ @EBz: What does "ppl" abbreviate? There are at least 80 ways to decode this: acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/PPL $\endgroup$ – GH from MO Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 11:56
14 $\begingroup$ @GHfromMO, I'd go with "people". $\endgroup$ – Gerry Myerson Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 12:43

5 Answers 5

I second Nate's suggestion to look at https://academia.stackexchange.com , there are already many similar questions (with answers, some of them specifically from mathematicians) on that site that may help you.

But since "go somewhere else" is not exactly the kind of answer someone in your situation needs, here are a few thoughts from a random person on the internet:

First, it sounds to me as if your PhD is actually going rather well: You've already obtained independent results, written papers, and initiated fruitful collaborations on your own. If that is not what you should demonstrate for this degree, I don't know what is. (Of course it could -- always! -- be going better, and the experience could be more pleasant for you.) So I wouldn't worry about your chances of graduating.

In fact, one possible (but certainly not the only) explanation is that your advisor is thinking the same thing: "They're doing well on their own, they don't need my help, and it's better for their career if they're working independently anyway." (Of course, this can also be a convenient rationalization of laziness or poor time management on their end...) If this is the case, I'd sit down with them, explain to them that you in fact do need their help, and negotiate exactly what kind and on what schedule. If that doesn't work (and you haven't graduated by then), switching advisors or getting a formal co-advisor (either in the same department or a different university) is certainly not unheard of.

Finally (and this is the reason I am writing this answer now), you write

And I also feel that this whole situation damages me mentally to a point where I frequently get anxiety attacks.

It's completely normal to have doubts and frustrations during your PhD (and the timing seems about on schedule for it, as well), but this is a strong emotional response that you should take seriously and seek help dealing with. Here I don't necessarily mean professional help (although there are certainly professionals that can help with this), but finding a trusted person you can talk to about these issues on a regular basis to prevent them from building up. (Here especially, https://academia.stackexchange.com can give you much better recommendations since this is something that happens in all disciplines.)

4 $\begingroup$ Thanks, for your advise! I will try to be good to myself! $\endgroup$ – Adriano Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 20:03
5 $\begingroup$ I think you missed my point, which is "you are not alone" :) But treating yourself well is certainly a good idea! $\endgroup$ – Christian Clason Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 21:10
$\begingroup$ Finding some sort of professional help would be significantly better than just having informal conversation with someone. Of course the latter could be useful, but it's unlikely it will provide you with the tools to deal with the root problems. You should see if your university offers any sort of mental health support for graduate students; this is usually the case in the USA and Canada. If it doesn't see if you can fit it into your budget. Your mental health and well-being should be one of your top priorities. $\endgroup$ – user347489 Commented Sep 30, 2020 at 0:15
$\begingroup$ @user347489 : It is certainly important to consider getting professional help, but it is also important to realize that not every professional counselor is better than every informal counselor. Depending on the individual situation, one might be better than the other, or maybe a combination of the two would be more effective than either by itself. $\endgroup$ – Timothy Chow Commented Sep 30, 2020 at 1:02
4 $\begingroup$ @user347489: Indeed, German universities typically offer some kind of councelling for mental health issues, too. In case that matters are mover involved and the need of a therapy outside of the scope of university councelling should emerge, such therapies are typically covered by health insurance in Germany; so at least there is probably no need to fit anything into the OP's budget. $\endgroup$ – Jochen Glueck Commented Sep 30, 2020 at 6:35

In the German tradition a PhD advisor is called a "Doktorvater/Doktormutter" --- a thesis parent. It might help to think about your relationship with your advisor along those lines. Many parents like to leave their kids on their own to explore the world, and see their role as "cheer leader" --- your biggest fan. From what you describe, "He gave this thesis the best grade possible", I do get the impression that your advisor admires you and is supportive, while letting you explore the world of mathematics on your own. And you definitely seem to be making good progress in that exploration, initiating collaborations, co-authoring papers. These are all signs of a great scientific maturity, you can be proud of how far you have come. Whether you continue in academia or not, these accomplishments will stand out on your CV.

If your advisor would "force" you to work on problems that do not interest you, I would definitely recommend you to seek another advisor. But you seem to have an advisor who lets you pursue your own research interests and the scientific environment in which you find yourself does seem to be intellectually stimulating. Perhaps it's true that you are climbing a mountain via the steepest route, but that may well be the most rewarding route.

10 $\begingroup$ I believe that unless one is very gifted (a rather rare occurence), the pros of climbing such a steep route are dwarfed by the pros of having a helpful advisor. That being said, I agree that OP seems to be doing rather well and I applaude him for that. $\endgroup$ – Chris Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 10:35
$\begingroup$ That is also a very helpful comment. Thanks for that! $\endgroup$ – Adriano Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 20:04

I've gotten here late, but I'd like to emphasize one point that I don't think has been made: I don't know what it is like in Germany, but from a US perspective, you have already done enough for a Ph.D. Many of us graduate with no papers yet published, their dissertations containing their only published results. You are already doing substantially better than many recent American Ph.D. graduates. The only requirement for a Ph.D. is having done independent research (beyond the level of a master's degree, whatever that means), and you have already done that. I know of people whose dissertations were a few published papers tied together with some interstitial wording—this is obviously not ideal, but I state it to point out it is an option: it has been done.

The fact your advisor has been too uninvolved to propose a thesis problem actually grants you a great deal of freedom, because you don't need to pursue some impossible white whale of a problem to please him. He can't fault you for choosing and answering your own problem. All you need to do to graduate is decide one of these independent projects, ideally a harder one, is the one you want to be your dissertaion, write some additional background chapters you wouldn't put in a paper, and submit that, and it sounds like you have plenty of time to do that. So by no means quit .

Unfortunately, unlike the Ph.D. itself, there are no standards required to be an advisor, and many of us get rather little advice. There's not much you can do to fix this problem, which is on his end, but it sounds like you're already doing the right thing, pursuing collaborations with people whose research is of interest to you and your own projects.

As far as career-related advice goes, many of us have had advisors who aren't terribly involved or aren't tremendously worldly, and what one usually does is to ask advice of postdocs you've made friends with, other established people in the department you trust, your peers, to compare, some of your older coauthors who you feel you have some rapport with, etc. It's unfortunate your advisor is unwilling to advise, but you have coauthors who want to see you stay in mathematics, as well as surely friends who have your best interest at heart, and it is always OK to ask. (And if all else fails, there's the Academia StackExchange.)

$\begingroup$ I think you'll find that the third comment on the original post mentioned the point that you think hasn't been made. $\endgroup$ – Gerry Myerson Commented Oct 1, 2020 at 23:24
$\begingroup$ I did see your comment, but wanted to make what I thought was a slightly different point. Your comment sounded to me, although this could be misinterpretation on my part, as though it was saying that some departments could be induced occasionally to make a special allowance and let a student graduate with something less than what is conventionally expected; whereas I wanted to say that whether or not it had appeared in thesis form, the amount of work the author had already done was morally speaking enough for a Ph.D. $\endgroup$ – jdc Commented Oct 2, 2020 at 12:36
2 $\begingroup$ I wanted to be really clear this person shouldn't quit. $\endgroup$ – jdc Commented Oct 2, 2020 at 12:38
$\begingroup$ @jdc I'm sorry, I thought I was in academia stackexchange. I wouldn't have commented this in MathOverflow on purpose. I'd like to add that I didn't give an opinion, I just asked a question. $\endgroup$ – user476158 Commented Mar 21, 2023 at 20:24

Whatever you do, don't quit because of your supervisor. If you want to quit, quit, but not because of your supervisor, maths is too good for that!

For what it's worth, I also struggled with a supervisor offering no help (actually no help would have been better, the little that my supervisor did say was always counterproductive and often simply wrong). I don't know if it's a German thing or if it's institute dependent (I was in Göttingen), maybe a bit of both. I'll try give a longer reply later with more concrete things that helped me and so hopefully can help you, but for now just take my first two sentences! :)

3 $\begingroup$ It's definitely not just a German thing. $\endgroup$ – Hollis Williams Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 15:40

The following suggestion may be naive, and I would say it definitely depends a lot on the personalities involved, so you should consider how things might play out before taking the following advice. But especially at an American university, I would advise a student in your position to discuss your situation with someone with a bit more authority at your university that you think may be sympathetic. I would probably begin by thinking about any teachers you've had at that university that you felt you got along with and who you might trust to handle a situation diplomatically. Alternatives might be your department chair or graduate program director (at least those would be the right people in the US - I apologize for not knowing if the German universities have direct equivalents). The goal is to find someone who knows your advisor well enough to offer some good advice and assistance but in a tactful way. Again, depending on the individuals, I could imagine one outcome where this professor is willing to talk with your advisor and say "look, I'm concerned your student might be struggling a bit and might need some more attention," though hopefully without pinning this too much on you. Alternatively, you might find someone who honestly says "yes, this person is not a great advisor - I suggest you switch to someone else." Such a person might even have a good recommendation for someone else to switch to who might be good for continuing on your current work at your current location. If your advisor is simply inadvertently neglectful, these approaches might work out. On the other hand, if you're concerned that your advisor might be vindictive about you talking about this behind their back, then of course you should tread more carefully. On the other hand, if you're considering giving up your Ph.D. altogether as an alternative, then trying to speak to someone at your university is probably at least worth a shot.

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When good supervisors go bad…

I get a lot of emails from students complaining about their supervision experience. This one, from an anonymous student, stood out. I think it’s the way the student thought they had it all figured out – before it went so very wrong….

I had a great supervisor. The perfect combination of thesis-related support, professional development, collegial co-worker and friendly laughs. In the face of my peers’ stories of unresponsive, out-of-touch or exploitative supervisors, I used to smile smugly to myself. I’d done my homework, I was onto a winner.

Until I wasn’t.

This is a story of a good supervisor gone bad . But, more importantly for anyone who is in the early stages of a PhD, this is a story of the mistakes I made along the way that contributed to a bad situation.

I came to my PhD after working on a wide range of research projects. I’d seen first hand how important a good supervisor is, and I was going to find the perfect candidate . I practically conducted interviews for the job…

I take that back. I did interview for the job.

I settled on someone who was less experienced that I was originally seeking. She had supervised PhD students before, but never as a principal supervisor. But she knew first hand what it takes to survive in a sector characterised by dwindling funds and few permanent positions.

She was concerned about my professional welfare beyond the thesis, insisting on 12 month plans that covered publications, conferences, papers, presentations, and networking activities, accompanied by five year plans covering postdocs and post-post-docs (is that a thing?). I thought she was great, so great I also took a job with her , and then followed her to another research institution when she moved jobs.

And she was great. She was great for three whole years. Until ensuring that I “had three papers under review at all times”, “had at least two conference presentations a year”, “was involved in a range of professional committees”, as well as working two research assistant roles, applying for numerous awards, running a granted-funded project and doing a fulltime PhD took its toll.

Stress does terrible things to the body.

I got sick. Not just a little run down or out of sorts. I got ‘your life may never be the same again’ kind of sick.

Not surprisingly, things began to slip. I got kicked off a committee for missing too many meetings, I couldn’t find the energy to revise my papers, and the thesis chapters I was turning out were starting to become subpar.

In response, my good supervisor was less than supportive . I won’t go into all the details. Let’s just say that what started as tough love evolved into bullying, abuse, manipulation and lying and, finally, the blocking of my submission.

Over the course of eight months, my great supervisor had become an unrecognisable master of psychological abuse. We were engaged in a war of attrition, a war that took me to the edge of my psychological and physical wellbeing – beyond any place I thought I could go, or perhaps more importantly, beyond what I would have thought I could survive. This sounds dramatic I know, but read the literature of narcissistic personality disorder and you’ll get the picture.

But, you see, I had made myself vulnerable to this abuse. I’d isolated myself. I had two other supervisors but, because my principal supervisor seemed so fantastic, I never built relationships with them – seeing them once a year at best.

As I mentioned before, I also followed my supervisor to another institution. This meant that I was physically isolated from the department in which I was enrolled as a student, and which had responsibility and a duty of care towards me. I stopped going to seminars, chatting to students in the hall, sitting on University committees or doing extra bits of work for other staff members. I stopped being visible.

This was a critical error. Firstly, there were no witnesses to what was occurring. Secondly, because I wasn’t witnessing other student-supervisor relationships or chatting to people informally, I lost perspective of what a normal and acceptable supervisory relationship looks like. And thirdly, people lost touch with how I was doing – windows of opportunity for someone to lend a hand before the situation escalated were missed.

Finally, when I did seek assistance at the University, I was anxious that I was perceived as the problem. My supervisor was a colleague and collaborator of the various staff I sought support and assistance from. I was a PhD student no one had seen in two years. Looking back, I’d say only half the people I sought help from really believed me.

In the end, one of my other supervisors intervened and recommended my thesis be submitted. It passed with no changes.

Yup, no changes.

And my supervisor?

My bad supervisor turned good overnight.

So, what have I learned from all of this?

Set your own limits. Don’t let someone else push you to take on more than you should.
Work out what your goals and aspirations are. Don’t let someone else project theirs onto you.
Build relationships with all of your supervisors. Make all of them accountable and responsible for your progress and wellbeing.
Keep in contact with people in your department (staff members and students). This is important not just so you have someone to turn to, but so they know what’s normal for you and can help you realise something is amiss before you find yourself engaged in all out psychological warfare.
Document. Let me say that again. Document. When things finally got bad enough that others got involved, I had a history of missed meetings, strings of emails and inappropriate feedback that I was able to produce to support my claims.
Smooth it over. I don’t plan to work with my supervisor again. Hell, I don’t plan to talk to my supervisor again. But I did sit down and (very awkwardly) patch things over after my thesis had passed. Academia is a small world and I’ve already lost count of how many times I’ve thanked my lucky stars for having “cleared the air” (no matter how tokenistic these efforts might actually be).

Thanks Anonymous! Glad to hear it all worked out, despite the difficulties. I think these are great tips. Has anyone else had to patch up a relationship gone bad after it was all over? We’d love to hear your stories in the comments section.

How I broke up with my supervisor

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My advisor left MIT during my PhD

Making difficult decisions with incomplete information

December 21, 2020 | Cherry G.

Biological Engineering

It was a chilly November morning in 2014, and two months into my second year at MIT. My PhD advisor called for an all-hands group meeting with required attendance. We crammed into a tiny conference room: all 15 of us, whose lives were about to be turned upside-down. On the screen, my advisor flashed a picture of a perfect, European city snuggled by a breathtaking panorama of snow-capped mountains. “I have accepted a Full Professor position at ETH Zurich in Switzerland”, he announced, followed by a 10-minute PowerPoint presentation delineating the logistics of his move, from the new lab space (scientific wonderland) to the timeline of his move (within 6 months). My advisor was already a tenured professor at MIT, and obtaining a Full Professor position at a world-class university like ETH Zurich was a formidable achievement. Despite his success, each bullet point felt like a stab in my chest. We shuffled out of the conference room in silence.

Switching to another advisor at MIT was an option. I was early enough in my PhD that starting over would not introduce too much delay. This option would allow me to continue cultivating the friendships and connections at MIT made during my first years of my campus involvement, including at the Sidney Pacific Graduate Community and the MIT Graduate Student Council .

On the other hand, moving with my advisor to ETH Zurich was a rare, possibly a once-in-a-lifetime, opportunity to live and work in Switzerland. This option was riddled with doubts and questions with no answers. What would my life be like there? Will I have a good experience? Would I be compromising my MIT PhD experience, one that I worked so hard to get, by moving to another university?

Back then, this was the toughest decision I had ever had to make in the 24 years of my life. I consulted with friends and counselors (“if you were me, would you move or stay?”) because I craved wisdom, advice, clarity, or any information that would fill the large and scary abyss of unanswered questions. For four months, I lived in the anxious gray-zone of indecision.

In retrospect, one of the biggest personal lessons that I learned is to trust my gut and say “YES” to unexpected opportunities. The ironic thing about making life-changing decisions with incomplete information is that the majority of the unanswered questions (which paralyzed me in indecision) would remain unanswered unless you take the route of many unknowns. I did not know what my PhD life in Switzerland would look like, but if I didn’t seize this opportunity, I could never find out.

So I decided to move.

A practical tip for PhD students who decide to move away with their advisors: do not focus on your impending move during the time leading up to it! After making the decision to move to Switzerland, I made the mistake of leading with that information during social interactions. Eventually, every conversation started with “I thought you already moved” or “When are you moving again?”, and in answering, I was forced to count down the months (“I’m moving in 9 months…”). Friends would sometimes express their jealousy (“You are so lucky. Switzerland is so beautiful”), because they wrongly equated my Swiss PhD experience with their vacation in the alps. As a hairball of complex emotions surged up my throat, I internally struggled to find words to express myself. I ended up nodding silently to let the awkward moment pass.

Despite the constant presence of “the move” on my mind, the year leading up to it was one of the best years I had at MIT. Knowing that I only had one more year in Cambridge, I lived my MIT life to the fullest. I went to hackathons, seminars, club events, and took campus leadership positions. I filled my calendar with social events to create lasting memories with my MIT friends.

As my SWISS flight LX53 gained altitude, I watched Boston get smaller and smaller, marking the start of my 3-year PhD journey in Switzerland. Needless to say, those three years were a period of immense personal growth. When I arrived on the ETH Zurich campus, I was surprised to learn that the lab was not set up to the level that would allow me to perform my experiments. I was in the middle of my third year, which is typically when PhD students accelerate their productivity. Instead, I found myself scientifically decelerating to an almost dead halt. Coupled with my scientific doom, I was also challenged socially. Not being integrated in the student life at the university meant that I needed to be especially proactive in making friends, which placed me in plenty of uncomfortable and awkward situations. I joined a Swiss German choir without being able to speak or understand the language (music is a universal language, right?). I learned to read body language, facial expressions, and social cues like a pro. I learned to be OK with being a fly on the wall at parties as conversations in Swiss German buzzed around me. I spent a lot of time reflecting on how I fit into the world as an individual, and yes, I did this while exploring the beautiful Swiss alps.

I also learned to recognize when I need to pivot my life trajectory. While I cherished my time and friendships in Switzerland, and finishing my PhD there was an option for me, I made the decision to come back to MIT as soon as I felt that my growth curve had hit a saturation point. I pitched my detailed plan to finish my PhD remotely from my advisor, and he agreed. What followed was a couple of wonderful final years at MIT, where I continued to grow exponentially. I realized that while it is important to take opportunities as they come, it is also important for me to recognize when I am no longer moving forward at the speed that matches my energy and appetite. It was time to pivot my life towards a different direction, which for me, was coming home to MIT.

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Help! My Ph.D. Advisor is Ignoring Me

The journey to earning a Ph.D. can often feel like going through a crucible. At times, you may find yourself wondering if you will emerge stronger, having been forged in fire? Or will you be reduced to ash? What happens when the Virgil assigned to guide you through the furthest reaches of the academic underworld goes MIA?

Feeling abandoned by your Ph.D. advisor is a panic-inducing experience that is unfortunately not uncommon in today’s higher education landscape. There are many factors that contribute to a graduate student’s overall sense of wellbeing, and their relationship with their advisor is one of the most significant. When the stakes are so high, a sense of disconnect can feel like the end of the world–or at least your academic career.

Fear not: it doesn’t have to be. While it is natural to be unsettled when you feel like your advisor has cast you adrift, it’s also important to know that you have options. When major problems like this arise during the course of a graduate program, many students tend to further withdraw and eventually quit their program. Before making any major decisions, it may help to get some perspective and try to see another path forward.

These are a few commonly asked questions about what to do when your Ph.D. advisor is ignoring you:

What should I expect from my Ph.D. advisor?
Why is my Ph.D. advisor ignoring me?
What can I do to reconnect with my Ph.D. advisor?
What can I do if my Ph.D. advisor keeps ignoring me?

What Should I Expect from My Ph.D. Advisor?

A woman speaking with her dissertation advisor

The role that a Ph.D. advisor is expected to play varies widely depending on the program. In some programs, advisors reach out to students immediately upon enrollment, they hold multiple advising meetings every semester, and they take on mentoring responsibilities. They are present for every milestone throughout your program, cheering you on from the sidelines. In other programs, the advisor registers you for classes and that’s about it. The difference can be that drastic.

Most graduate student-Ph.D. advisor relationships fall somewhere in the middle. When I was a Ph.D. student, my advisor was knowledgeable, available, and committed to my success in the program. However, he was not a cheerleader or even particularly concerned with my emotional well-being; he was more of a “sink or swim, it’s up to you” kind of guy. That was okay, but only because I was enthusiastically mentored by other faculty in my program.

Why is My Ph.D. Advisor Ignoring Me?

There are many reasons why your Ph.D. advisor may not be as engaged as you would like them to be, whether there are long stretches of silence or they are completely unresponsive. In some cases, you may not be hearing from your advisor because everything is fine; your coursework is going well and you’re meeting faculty expectations: no news is good news.

However, radio silence may also be a sign that something is amiss. While the problem might have something to do with you, it’s also possible that your Ph.D. advisor is simply overwhelmed. Faculty members have a litany of responsibilities, from teaching and service to advising and research. From my own experience as a professor, I can say that it’s a constant balancing act, and sometimes I need a gentle email reminder (or two).

A woman looking at her computer, feeling upset that her dissertation advisor is ignoring her

That being said, it’s important to trust your instincts if you feel like something more serious is going on . Your Ph.D. advisor is likely busy and perhaps overcommitted, but they are still responsible for you. If your Ph.D. advisor has stopped responding to phone calls and emails or you don’t hear from them for long stretches of time, it’s a good idea to take action. Early intervention is best; don’t wait an entire semester (or longer) to find out what’s going on.

Reconnecting with Your Ph.D. Advisor

Be proactive. If you are on campus or live near campus, start checking in with your Ph.D. advisor regularly. All faculty, everywhere, hold office hours, whether they are in person or online. Office hours are blocks of time designated specifically for students, not enough of whom take advantage of the opportunity for one-on-one interaction with an expert in the field they’re studying. Make no mistake: facetime outside of class is important.

When it comes to engaging with your Ph.D. advisor, being enrolled in an online or low-residency program can present additional challenges. They are not insurmountable, but more effort on your part may be needed. If possible, try to make the trek to campus and meet with your advisor in person. If not, no worries: technology is better than ever, making it easy to connect with your Ph.D. advisor. Ask your Ph.D. advisor for regular Zoom meetings to check in and make sure you’re on the right track.

man smilingly talking to a colleague on his laptop

What if the Problem Persists?

In my experience, many graduate students blame themselves when their advisor keeps ignoring them. They assume the worst: they aren’t doing well in their program, their research isn’t up to snuff, they aren’t worth their advisor’s time. Hopefully, this isn’t the case. Ph.D. advisors are human, and they are just as subject to personality conflicts as everybody else. If the two of you didn’t hit it off and your communication hasn’t improved, it’s time to consider your options.

If talking to your advisor doesn’t work, reach out to your department chair and see if they have any suggestions. Ask about switching advisors. In some departments, this may be a complicated request because of workload allocations, but the chair should be able to figure it out. See if there is a possibility to work with another faculty member, one whom you’ve gotten along with in previous semesters.

If you are far enough along in your program, you may also consider transitioning to the faculty member who will chair your dissertation committee. Or, stick with your current advisor, but supplement their lack of support by asking another faculty member or two for formal mentorship. Don’t despair: there are other people who will be happy to help you. Find them.

close up of taking notes in front of laptop

Courtney Watson, Ph.D.

Courtney Watson, Ph.D. is an Associate Professor of English at Radford University Carilion, in Roanoke, Virginia. Her areas of expertise include undergraduate and graduate curriculum development for writing courses in the health sciences and American literature with a focus on literary travel, tourism, and heritage economies. Her writing and academic scholarship has been widely published in places that include Studies in American Culture , Dialogue , and The Virginia Quarterly Review . Her research on the integration of humanities into STEM education will be published by Routledge in an upcoming collection. Dr. Watson has also been nominated by the State Council for Higher Education of Virginia’s Outstanding Faculty Rising Star Award, and she is a past winner of the National Society of Arts & Letters Regional Short Story Prize, as well as institutional awards for scholarly research and excellence in teaching. Throughout her career in higher education, Dr. Watson has served in faculty governance and administration as a frequent committee chair and program chair. As a higher education consultant, she has served as a subject matter expert, an evaluator, and a contributor to white papers exploring program development, enrollment research, and educational mergers and acquisitions.

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Supervisor advised me to quit late in my PhD

I'm a third-year PhD student at a university in the Netherlands. The program is normally four years but students finish averagely in 4.5 years. By the end of each year we have progress evaluation. The first and second went well, just some advice, nothing critical. However, about 10 days ago I received a shocking feedback from my supervisor saying that it's better to quit because we (the committee) don't think you will be able to finish. Me and my supervisor then discussed things back and forth, and I argued that I had big delays due to covid and he agreed with me, but still the advice is to stop. And if I want to continue I have to try to find something (somehow) in 3 months and present again in front of different committee. And he won't be there.

The thing is, we have very bad data. Some interesting insights but his general expression is that we can't publish anything out of it. Of course he is stressed about the grant he got for the project and that the project didn't work as desired, but does that give him the right to want to terminate my PhD?

The thing is I'm still in shock and don't understand why this is happening. And more, why now? If I was a bad PhD, why not let me go before?

I'm sorry I'm just sad and confused at the moment. I don't know where to go and whom to ask for advice.

Edit: so the committee is pretty much useless and the supervisor is not interested in my data or PhD anymore. He can't however effectively terminate my contract, I can stay but mostly no degree in the end.

Should I fight against that somehow? Should I ask for ombudsman advice? Or maybe just cut loses with all the stress and anxiety I'm getting from all this?

Update: the ombudsman sympathized and suggested to leave once I manage to find work somewhere else.

netherlands

92 I am so sorry that you are in this situation. – Neuchâtel Commented Aug 29, 2022 at 20:20
8 Are you fully funded with stipend? The advice is a bit different if you are paying v.s. if they are paying you. – Clumsy cat Commented Aug 29, 2022 at 20:38
6 I am a bit confused here… is the underlying issue that the project is not recoverable so the funding is disappearing? Why would the supervisor not be at the next meeting? – Dawn Commented Aug 29, 2022 at 20:42
5 @Clumsycat I'm fully funded until the end of fourth year. – Zen Commented Aug 29, 2022 at 20:50
11 There is no question in the post that anyone can answer. – Wolfgang Bangerth Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 3:01

9 Answers 9

Knowing that the OP is in the Netherlands allows for a more tailored response.

In the Netherlands most PhD students enjoy employment as an "AIO". This is full employment contract that gives the PhD "student" all the rights and benefits of a normal employee of the university. Since you have satisfactorily passed your previous performance reviews, it will be very hard for the university to make a case for terminating your contract (unless you give them cause to do so).

This employment contract however is formally distinct of the process of getting a PhD. While the stated goal of the employment contract will be to prepare you for getting your PhD, there is no guarantee that this will be the case.

Essentially, your advisor seems to have given up faith that your current project will lead to something. Rather than trying to get your PhD back on the rails, they seem to want to convince you to quit (because firing you is hard). This will save face for them. PhD candidates quit, it happens. If you stay, this will reflect badly on them as the failure of the project will become their failure. They are trying to make their problem your problem

This leaves the OP in a tough spot. Their contract as an AIO will likely require them to report to their line manager, which in all likelihood is their advisor. So, while some have given the advice to try to find a new advisor, this is not so simple, since their funding is essentially linked to their advisor. They will not only have to find someone willing to act as a promotor, they also have to persuade the department to transfer them to a different line manager. This may or may not be possible.

On the other hand, it seems your advisor is effectively refusing to do their job. So, you might have a recourse in complaining about this to their line manager (probably the institute director). However, this may also escalate the situation in such away that it becomes hard to resolve, and your best outcome becomes accepting a severance package.

My best advice is to get advice from somebody that actually knows the situation in your department. In principle, you should have been assigned a secondary advisor that you can talk to in case of conflict with your advisor (but unfortunately this does not always happen), you might be able to talk to this person. Alternatively, contact your university's ombudsperson for advice.

2 I contacted the ombudsperson and indeed the situation is really complicated. They said I could go against my supervisor decision, but at the same time, I won't get much support from him along the way. That implies a risk of working hard without earning PhD in the end. Hence, wasting more years. The other option they suggested is to basically cut loses and find a job/PhD somewhere else. – Zen Commented Sep 7, 2022 at 11:22

(Edit; TooTea points out that you specified the Netherlands in another comment. I'm going to leave this answer basically intact, because I think it best covers the general case, but there are some additional notes in italics.)

So it's not impossible that you missed some poorly articulated indications that this project had issues. Some cultures don't give very direct criticism. Impossible to say without a lot more information, but it's neither here nor there at this point. (If the supervisor is culturally Dutch this seems less likely, they probably just didn't keep track of things well enough to spot the problem when it was smaller).

For whatever reason, your supervisor is not going to help you anymore, but I see no reason you should quit.

You are fully funded, and so there is little reason to walk away prematurely. There are a couple of ways you could play this, depending on your priorities;

You want to optimise your chances of graduation. It's not exactly great odds, but they would improve a lot of you could find another advisor. Is there anyone else at your institution who might be relevant to your topic? Have a chat with them, and start out just asking for their perspective. Tell them you fear you may have misunderstood earlier communication, and maybe missed a big problem. If they agree that the situation seems strange, and there wasn't a clear problem earlier, ask if they think you could graduate. If they think it possible, ask if they would be willing to supervise your last year. During this conversation absolutely resist the urge to say anything rude about your current advisor, it will kill any chance that another academic will take you on.

(This is apparently complicated by the funding stipulations, as described in TimRias 's answer. I'd still advise you start with this chat though. Another faculty member who was supportive and willing to take you on is probably the best way to persuade the department to transfer the funding).

Maybe you actually don't want that stress anymore? A reasonable move at this point would be to do the minimal work required to present something to a committee, and spend the rest of your time job hunting. I suspect that by creating a minimal thesis to present you would make it harder for your supervisor to kick you out earlier, therefor maximise your time on the stipend. Having longer to job hunt, particularly while you can honestly say you are still working towards the PhD, might be very beneficial. Maybe this isn't the most ethical of approaches, but your supervisor's failure to communicate well (or possibly just lack of oversite) has put you in an unfortunate position, so I think it's justifiable to prioritise your own long term security now.

(With reference to TimRias 's description of your funding model, this looks like a very viable approach. They would struggle to force you out if you just coasted for the remainder of your funding period).

Whatever you do, best of luck. I'm sorry you got this thrown at you.

1 Not sure where you are, but in the U.S. another angle for this second option is to change your PhD into an MS or an MPS degree. I know many PhDs who, due to problems with their advisor or research or both, opted to meet smaller research requirements to get another MS degree or shifted to a practical project (capstone or internship) to get an MPS degree. That worked out well (in terms of good employment) for everyone I know who did it, so I would not think of it as 'quitting' so much as 'adapting to the situation'. – cr0 Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 17:48
6 OP wrote they're in the Netherlands (which is generally somewhat on the "direct" end of the scale culture-wise), but of course it's possible their advisor comes from a different culture. – TooTea Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 19:12
1 @TooTea Your guess is right, unfortunately. – Zen Commented Aug 31, 2022 at 15:58
@Zen Given the direct nature of the Netherlands, possibly you can tell your advisor that you will not be quitting, and now the problem of the project going badly is in fact their problem again. And since the easy/low-risk solution of getting you to quit and making the problem go away didn't work, maybe they have some higher-risk options to offer that might result in salvaging your PhD. – user3067860 Commented Sep 6, 2022 at 16:01

I can only answer in general terms, because you do not specify which country and which department. Being "in Europe" (note it is a continent with heterogeneous laws), you may have some legal resource, but the most important thing is that you have a contract and money.

I will therefore focus on the half-full glass, looking forward to a way out of this situation.

In no PhD's contracts is written that the employer will give you a PhD, so your situation is not illegal per se ... and you have the big advantage that your financial/working relationship with the university is independent from your relation with an (any) advisor. You have to find a new advidsor, because you have already a salary to perform research (yes, I know, with no renewal perspective... welcome to the academic world!).

Now is time to bang to all the doors of all the department and even neighbouring departments. You have money, you have some data, you have one-two years left on the contract, ask every professor, every heads of department if they can take you in to bring your PhD to an end.

You still have money and time, so your situation is already quite stable. You just need to find a different thesis advisor with a different thesis topic.

Basically you are restarting your PhD, and you have two years of experience, so it is possible to finish your PhD in one-two years (hard, but possible).

Ps: you may be able to write proposals for grants. Time-consuming, but then you may obtain your own money to perform research.

I updated that it's in the Netherlands. I understand that finding a new advisor could is an option, but unfortunately in the department, he's the only one with expertise to judge the work. A different thesis topic in a different department is an interesting idea, but do you think that it's common that students move to other departments to start over, while failing (on paper) their previous project? – Zen Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 8:22
How common? a lot: you bring money and workforce, you will find an advisor with more than one neuron willing to host you. Please note that you should keep the door open also for cooperations with other unis and research institution in the country. Additionally, if you want to move out of the academia, you have now money and time to build up you network in the private sector, but you have to be proactive and build the relationship. Join student associations, think tanks, professional association, you are in a very invidiable position (again: you have a salary for granted!) – EarlGrey Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 9:06
1 @EarlGrey Although the OP has a contract, this does not mean that they can do as they want. The contract will come of contractual obligations, including reporting to a line manager, which in all likelihood will be their advisor. It is not at all clear, they can take their money and start working for a different professor. – TimRias Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 9:33
@TimRias "the supervisor is not interested in my data or PhD anymore. He can't however effectively terminate my contract, I can stay but mostly no degree in the end." It is quite clear that OP has a running contract, surely with formal obligations that OP can fulfill since he passed two (2!) yearly evaluations. – EarlGrey Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 9:35
2 @Zen Actually, you did not update that the question is based in the Netherlands. Please EDIT that fact into the QUESTION and not as an ephemeral comment. – CGCampbell Commented Aug 30, 2022 at 12:37

Dead ends happen in research, I don't think it is feasible to quit PhD over a dead end . However, there is something you should know, a dead end is a big setback. You will most likely take much longer than average length to graduate. Now you say the data is very bad. You could try to side step to a similar topic with different data to analyze.

However, you will need to persuade your supervisor to do this. Tell him/her you understand the problem and you are ready to start over. Obviously it will not be starting from zero, you gained experience, you have now better tools to deal with the task. If he/she accepts, you will probably finish in two more years and everything will be fine.

If not, try to find another supervisor. Talk with the dean or head of graduate studies for help. They might be willing to help you find another supervisor with similar interests. This route will probably take longer as you will have to find another supervisor who might have different work habits.

First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your situation, and I truly hope you'll find a solution.

I've been in the situation myself where it was hard to publish anything during my PhD, since most of the results we were getting were negative results, as in "the answer to this question is no, what we want to achieve is not doable". Took me long long enough to realize that: "negative" results are still results, and it is just a matter of what one does with it. It can be hard, that no one can deny, but you probably can do something with the data you acquired. Furthermore, the data, as bad as they can be, come from somewhere: you provided some work, and by doing so you brought some insight on your field and the way it is performed, at the very least in your group. And it is not nothing, and a try is usually rewarded in European universities (of course there are exceptions, but well that's case to case...).

As per your supervisor, that might be a bigger issue. As mentioned in the answer, and as I actually saw it happen to a friend of mine, you might not want to go against them. It will bring you further pressure, and you probably don't need it right now.

My advice would be, try to talk this through with them, and also your coworker (Assuming your have coworkers), and figure out what the best solution is with them. And do not fear to express you wishes, since you were involved for about four years in your project, it is but normal to feel attached to this project and having trouble to let it go.

Consider starting another PhD at another university. Working together with your supervisor to get a PhD is hard enough. Working against him, you need to have pretty good results or some other allies.

Your three years won't be lost, as you probably learned a lot and will pick up a similar topic more rapidly and are able to do smarter choices compared to yourself three years ago. You might be able to finish your second attempt within three years.

I got my PhD in Astrophysics few years ago. My best advice: search for another supervisor willing to continue with you from the point you stopped with your current supervisor.

3 This answer lacks some details, justification, elaboration. – usr1234567 Commented Aug 31, 2022 at 6:15

One way or another, this is your supervisor's fault. If the title was your proposal and the project was designed by you, the supervisor should have evaluated that thoroughly before taking you as his PhD student. Secondly, a failed project is 50% of the supervisor's responsibility. The supervisor seems to be not experienced enough to salvage your research. These are signals that you should not continue working under this person.

Find a new supervisor with a PhD program at a new university, possibly outside the Netherlands but in the EU.

I hope you have published some papers. If that is so, there should be no problem with getting admission to another PhD program. Your previous experience will help you to streamline your next project. Therefore, never give up!

Fine in theory but I have to question the feasibility of finding a new supervisor in a different university in the same country who would have the courage and interest in taking on an unknown and thus - to him/her - high risk PhD student at this point in the programme. I agree with your attribution of responsibility to the supervisor however. It should not have been posited as PhD topic if it were so risky and if "impactful" results were a requirement for a doctoral degree in the opinion of the supervisor - the latter coming to light on very recently. Naturally I find the latter idea odd. – Trunk Commented Aug 31, 2022 at 12:04

I think you should immediately go to the Head of Department to discuss this situation. You really should bring a friend to this meeting to act as a witness should the HoD later try to deny the conversation. Do this even if you feel that the Head will not do other than support your supervisor's opinion as it's important to register the problem with the HoD as soon as practicable . Have your case clear beforehand, i.e. (1) how your supervisor as well as you undertook the programme with all the attached risk of unimpactful results; (2) how no serious criticism of your work was made by your supervisor till very recently; and (3) how your supervisor callously "advises" you to give up work entirely on this doctorate without any regard to the time and effort put into it nor to its professional impact on your career in research.

Consult with your postgraduate students' association's Education Officer. See if similar scenarios occurred in the past - check any files they have - and what actions were taken. As before, bring a friendly witness to these meetings.

If there's any member of your Department capable and willing to discuss the matter with you without partiality to your supervisor, please talk to them on the matter. The purpose of this is to get a fresh academic perspective on the overall study and see if an acceptable thesis can be salvaged from what's already done as well as potentially identify some new work that could add more impact to it. Do not broach on transfer of supervision to the other faculty member at this point. Just look to salvage a thesis from what your supervisor considers a wreckage of your work to date.

On a personal level discuss the situation with someone friendly and non-academic so that you get some personal support through this.

These are the immediate steps.

You have to review all your work to date for yourself and coolly evaluate its merits yourself.

Perhaps after doing this you might consider making contact via this forum, or some other suitable one, with an academic in your general area of research with a view to getting their evaluation of your work done so far.

It's understandable that you are in shock just now. But you must gather yourself and not lose momentum towards gaining your doctorate by actively doing all you can to preserve the merit of your efforts.

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I was fired from Deloitte after 18 months. Here are the mistakes I made as a new grad.

Eddy Gramajo landed a job at Deloitte as a first-gen college graduate with a low-income background.
At Deloitte, he was too focused on grasping corporate culture rather than his actual work.
Gramajo was fired after 1 ½ years but has since built a successful accounting career in tech.

This as-told-to essay is based on a conversation with Eddy Gramajo, a 32-year-old accountant in San Diego. Business Insider has verified his employment history and salary details. The following has been edited for length and clarity.

I wasn't a great student in high school — I had a 2.4 GPA. Even my guidance counselor told me that community college would probably be my best option.

Yet I managed to land a job at Deloitte after college. Eighteen months later, though, I was fired.

I studied accounting in college to make a better life for myself

When I was growing up in California, my mom didn't make much money as a hairstylist, and she raised my brother and me as a single mother . I remember coming home from school and not knowing where we'd be sleeping because we'd been evicted.

Despite not being a great student, I got into the University of Redlands, a small school in Southern California, with generous financial aid and multiple need-based scholarships from local nonprofits.

I decided to double-major in business and accounting because the people I knew who made money and lived in nice houses were accountants or in finance or business. I wanted to help my mom out, do better for myself, and not worry about the lights being turned off or how to afford meals.

I was told I didn't look professional enough

Throughout college, I tried hard to make money — I resold my classmates used textbooks and worked multiple part-time retail and service jobs .

I knew other people who got internships, but I didn't manage to land any despite going to many Meet the Firms events , attending presentations, doing mock interviews, and submitting applications.

I remember thinking I crushed my first Meet the Firms event since I'd met many people and had gotten a stack of business cards. I was excited to follow up. Then my professor, the head of accounting, pulled me aside and told me that one of the Big Four firm's employees had mentioned that I needed to clean up, shave my beard, and be more presentable.

At another event, I remember one of the Big Four recruiters telling me, "I'm not even going to take a look at your résumé because your GPA isn't high enough."

At Deloitte, I focused on looks and personality instead of work

I thought for hours about what to wear on my first day . I chose a tie, dress shirt, and slacks, and I remember walking in and realizing I was the only one wearing a tie. After being told in the past that I didn't look presentable enough, I overbenchmarked my presentation.

In my starting class of 13 people, I was one of only two people of color. I didn't want people to think I didn't know what I was doing or draw attention to the fact that I was different.

I felt like the others in my starting class knew how to move in the corporate world better than I did, so I just tried to observe and learn.

I was so focused on grasping corporate culture that I didn't focus as much on the actual accounting work — that was my mistake. I focused on becoming buddy-buddy with the higher-ups because that was what I thought I needed to do to get ahead and accelerate my career.

When I got to Deloitte, I was surrounded by people from Yale, the University of California, San Diego, and all of these schools I didn't get into, so I clung to what I thought my strength was — my relationship-building skills — because they had always gotten me to places where my smarts couldn't.

I had some performance issues and was fired

I was promoted about 12 months in. But between then and the next review cycle, it became clear that it wasn't working out.

I missed a deadline or two and received more review notes on the Excel workbooks I turned in than expected. I wasn't submitting projects quickly enough because I was afraid to ask questions.

My senior manager asked me what was happening a few months before I was let go. I told her generally about some personal stuff I had going on because I thought I could be candid with her. She basically was like, "Hey, I know you're going through a lot, but everybody goes through stuff in their life, but they all end up figuring out how to get things done on time."

I started getting assigned lower-level work, and by my 18th month there, I stopped seeing stuff on my calendar. I took the lighter schedule as an opportunity to study for the CPA exam.

One day, I went into the office and had something scheduled on my calendar that morning. I went into the meeting, which was with the lead partner at the San Diego office and the human-resources person. They told me I was being let go because of performance issues.

I took it on the chin. I'm never one to make excuses. I could see how I hadn't been producing good-quality work, so I understood.

Even when I was getting fired, I was just super thankful for the opportunity. I knew how important it was to have Deloitte on my résumé, even just that 18-month experience.

I've made a career for myself

After Deloitte, I created an app with a former colleague from the firm to teach financial literacy to low-income families and students. The project ended up not working out, but at one point, we reached 5,000 monthly active users.

I moved back up to the Bay Area and slept on my brother's couch for a few months while I applied for jobs at tech companies, partly because I knew that was where the money was. I interviewed at 25 places and got an offer at Pandora in revenue accounting.

After Pandora, I worked at Glassdoor, started my consulting firm, Gramajo Consulting, joined Calm as its first hire on the revenue team, and have been at Dropbox since June 2022.

This is the longest I've ever been at a company, and Dropbox is one of the best places I've ever worked. The culture is great, and it's fully remote . My total compensation is nearly $300,000, and Dropbox offers great benefits — they provide six months of paid parental leave, so I got to spend six months straight with my child when he was born.

I don't look back and think about things I wish I had done differently. I feel like everything happens for a reason. Maybe if I hadn't gotten let go, I wouldn't have started the financial-literacy app or gotten a job at Pandora.

Now, 10 years later, I'm focused on making sure my team is clear on the goals we set. I don't want anybody to feel the way I felt at Deloitte, so I always provide a lot of transparency to my team in terms of giving feedback and discussing career growth.

I really focus on psychological safety for my team because I think that's important for groups such as first-generation white-collar employees, women, and people of color in the workplace. Two of my team of three are women of color, and I try to elevate them and give them recognition.

Mentors along the way supported me, and I want to pay it forward

I wouldn't have gotten here without the support of some great mentors along the way, including Nancy, the woman who ran a program called the College Dream Team and was the first person to tell me that I could go to college; Becky Mangiardi, my high-school librarian who would always be a listening ear and paid for one of my $75 college-application fees when I was trying to brainstorm ways to come up with the money; and Laurie Mitchell, my accounting professor who lent me $1,200 to be able to move to San Diego for Deloitte because she knew how important that was to get my career started.

I share my story on TikTok and try to be more transparent with my team because I want to pay forward the knowledge I've gained throughout my career to others.

I want others not to struggle the way I did and to learn from my mistakes so they don't have to make the same ones.

Deloitte representatives did not respond to requests for comment.

If you worked in a Big Four firm and would like to share your story, email Jane Zhang at [email protected] .

Watch: SAP's CMO Julia White learned early in her career about the challenge of leading teams through change, and earning respect by owning up to mistakes

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I was fired from Deloitte after 18 months. Here are the mistakes I made as a new grad.

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At Deloitte, I focused on looks and personality instead of work

I had some performance issues and was fired

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Watch: SAP's CMO Julia White learned early in her career about the challenge of leading teams through change, and earning respect by owning up to mistakes

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